Curse

navy blue chuckz · Jul 18, 2005, 08:55 PM // 20:55

Let's face it. One can weigh out the pro's and con's all day about whether or not the N/Me is fit enough for PvP, and it might be argued quite a lot, as I've come to take notice, that attempting N/Me in PvP would in fact be vain in comparison to better support or nuker classes.

That's not what this topic is for.

I've been scouring the internet for decent PvP builds for N/Me, as well as testing this and that on my own with different builds. While I know there are better classes for this, the truth is I want my N/Me to be more offensive than support. Possible? Debuffing enemies might work, but like i said...

Something offensive.

Please don't flame. I'm just asking for build suggestions for an offensive N/Me strictly for PvP. And I tend to type like there's no tomorrow-- sorry if you read this much.

THANKS, IN ADVANCE.

rii · Jul 18, 2005, 09:04 PM // 21:04

i unlocked spiteful spirit today so idd:

Domination: 12
Curses: 12

Spiteful Spirit [E]
Empathy
Insidious Parasite
Faintheartedness
Shadow of Fear
Barbs
Enfeeble
Res Signet

Chain spirit, empathy, parasite on a warrior, and see him beat himself to death in 8 hits

Use enfeeble to reduce damage output on warriors harrassing monks etc, and then fain for single targets and shadow for more than one.

Use Barbs for a good target caller. The added dps doesnt seem like much on paper but it does add up.
Ive used this is random arena to great success against warriors and rangers.... options against casters arent so hot....

Kishin · Jul 18, 2005, 09:13 PM // 21:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by navy blue chuckz

Let's face it. One can weigh out the pro's and con's all day about whether or not the N/Me is fit enough for PvP, and it might be argued quite a lot, as I've come to take notice, that attempting N/Me in PvP would in fact be vain in comparison to better support or nuker classes.

That's not what this topic is for.

I've been scouring the internet for decent PvP builds for N/Me, as well as testing this and that on my own with different builds. While I know there are better classes for this, the truth is I want my N/Me to be more offensive than support. Possible? Debuffing enemies might work, but like i said...

Something offensive.

Please don't flame. I'm just asking for build suggestions for an offensive N/Me strictly for PvP. And I tend to type like there's no tomorrow-- sorry if you read this much.

THANKS, IN ADVANCE.

A Necro/Mesmer is not really built to be an offensive juggernaut, for starters. Secondly, it may be better in a number of situations to go Mesmer/necro, since Fast Casting stands to be more useful than Soul Reaping, except in scenarios with a lot of deaths (ie. the altar in HoH). I suppose you could use all the Blood Magic drains offensively (Life Transfer, Vampiric Gaze, etc. etc.) but thats not exactly elementalist damage. Mesmers don't have very many flat out offensive damage dealing abilities, either and most are geared toward specific types of targets (Clumsiness for example). You could toss Energy Burn in there. Shatter Delusions I suppose as well, but it works only with Mesmer hexes. Those are pretty much the only straight damage you have. There's also Insidious Parasite, Empathy....(both of which are hexes) however.

If you want my honest opinion, you're barking up the wrong tree trying to be a damage dealer as a Necro/Mes or Mes/Necro. Your profession is far better suited to other tasks.

ICURADik · Jul 18, 2005, 09:14 PM // 21:14

One skill is required for a necromancer. Putrid Explosion.

Kishin · Jul 18, 2005, 10:43 PM // 22:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by ICURADik

One skill is required for a necromancer. Putrid Explosion.

Moreso in Tombs than in GvG (Unless of course, you're fighting minion spam or are somehow quick enough to nuke a corpse on someone who's trying to use it to Necrotic Transversal and gank your Lord). But not all Necros build Death-heavy when 75% of that tree is next to useless since it interacts heavily with minions, which can be made to work, but not in the most efficient manner.

theclam · Jul 18, 2005, 10:53 PM // 22:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by rii

Domination: 12
Curses: 12

Spiteful Spirit [E]
Empathy
Insidious Parasite
Faintheartedness
Shadow of Fear
Barbs
Enfeeble
Res Signet

Shadow of Fear and Faintheartedness work against Spiteful Spirit and Empathy, making them take less damage. Barbs only works for physical damage, so unless you've got a Warrior or Ranger heavy team, it won't do much for you.

I'd replace Shadow of Fear, Barbs, and Faintheartedness with something like Diversion, Backfire, and Power Leak/Spike. That would give you 4 spells against Warriors and Rangers and 3 spells against casters, instead of 6 spells against Warriors and Rangers and 0 spells against casters, like you have now.

rii · Jul 19, 2005, 07:56 AM // 07:56

They do indeed work against each other, so use them with tact. More as a defensive thing rather than lay down. Whatsmore, the degen is surprisingly useful from faint against runners. I usually run backfire instead of barbs, i just put that in as something different... One interrupt isnt really the most effective use.... if i wanted to make an interrupter... well id get a ranger, but for a start id need points in illusion. And diversion is only that good against monks... and wyrms.

Whatsmore the offensive spells are best stacked.. so there will often be spare warriors that need disabling....

Mercury Angel · Jul 19, 2005, 08:17 AM // 08:17

This isn't the forum for asking for suggestions for an entire build, Gladiator's Arena is for that. The Campfire, as per the instructions in the sticky, is intended for the discussion of already planned out builds.

There's a lot of good general information already posted in the Gladiator's Arena to work off of.

Now, as per your question, if you REALLY want to go with damaging using n/me, then here're some skills to look into-

Soul Barbs + Wastrel's Worry
Haven't used it myself, but there was another topic about. Wastrel's Worry is cheap and spammable, which makes it a great skill to use with Soul Barbs to trigger a lot of damage.

Spiteful Spirit {E}/Empathy/Insidious Spirit
1 or more of the above can end up being lethal for attacking warriors. Not very quickly, but the damage adds up. 2 of them will deal ~40-60 damage each time they attack.

Dark Pact+Vampiric Gaze+Touch of Agony+Energy Management
Defence ignoring damage with skills like Offering of Blood {E}, Energy Tap, Energy Drain {E} to replenish lost energy. Feast of Corruption {E} also produces high damage amounts.

Dark Aura+Sacrafices
Painful damaging build, especially useful against targets that can't/won't move, since all of the damage will ignore armor, and should be dealing up from 100 damage per skill. Hard to keep your health up like this though.

Soul Leech {E}+Backfire
Stack them both on a single target, split them on 2 targets, or cast them back-to-back.

Fragility + Conditions
For this, you want skills that inflict conditions with low linked attributes. Enfeeble and Virulence mainly. Chillbains + Plague Touch would be another condition, while also allowing you to transfer whatever conditions you get yourself to the enemy.

Those're all I can think of off the top of my head right now.

Zeru · Jul 19, 2005, 08:32 AM // 08:32

If you want a damage necro I suggest you go Heavy blood and spam Order of the Vampire along with Order of Pain with a warrior/ranger heavy build. You may as well combine this with Putrid in tombs.

Outside of some really quirky builds basically you're asking for necro to do something it's not designed to do well (well frankly primary necro isn't going to do much anyway). It's kinda like asking for a strategy to heal your team as a Ranger/Ele. Secondary nec is a much better choice.

Sleazy_D · Jul 19, 2005, 02:15 PM // 14:15

N/Me? First thing that comes to mind is to spam conditions, and hexes, then hit people with things like Epedemic, and Shatter Hex for either massive damage or damage that's hard to figure out and that easily multiplies.

Enigmatics · Jul 19, 2005, 05:15 PM // 17:15

Echoed fragility with with fevered dreams and some conditions to induce works well, if you can overcome the incredibly hefty energy cost.

navy blue chuckz · Jul 19, 2005, 10:04 PM // 22:04

Hmm... this is what i've been working on.

[Curses/Domination/Blood]

Soul Barbs
Spiteful Spirit {E}
Insidious Parasite
Empathy
Backfire
Wastrel's Worry
Vampiric Gaze or Touch
Life Siphon

What do you guys think?
All suggestions/constructive criticism welcome!

navy blue chuckz · Jul 20, 2005, 10:01 PM // 22:01

bumpage.

Rhedd · Jul 21, 2005, 03:53 AM // 03:53

I play a curse-heavy Me/N, and while I certainly don't claim to being an expert, I see two big problems with that build, chuckz. I'm not just quoting the wisdom-of-the-day, but going on what I've experienced:

The first problem is energy. Unless things are dying like flies (and I assume you have all your points in Curse/Dom/Blood, and not in Reaping) you're going to spend most of the battle wiggling your wand. You have no way of gaining more energy except waiting for it.

Looks to me like you'll drain yourself in the first barrage, too. I assume you'd cast Soul Barbs, Spirit, Parasite, and Empathy on one target right off? That's 50 energy, and brings me to my next point...

50 energy for a bit of incidental damage and one guy shut down for a bit.

The thing about Parasite + Empathy + Spirit is that it's GREAT against idiots. I used it constantly when I started PvP, now I don't. Why? Not everyone is an idiot (contrary to evidence ^_^). If they're smart enough to stop attacking, then you've just spent your entire energy reserve to shut a warrior down for twenty seconds. Since most warriors these days don't consider themselves the damage-dealers anyway, that's not a big deal to anyone.

If you just wanted to shut a warrior down, you have MUCH better skills for that.

Also on the energy problem list, Wastrel's Worry is only decent if you spam it (and then it's still not very good), and spamming = big energy drain, again with no way to recover.

navy blue chuckz · Jul 21, 2005, 07:01 AM // 07:01

Very good points, Rhedd. I've in fact changed my build because of that energy issue. I'd usually waste everything in the first barrage, as you said, and ultimately I'd end up spamming soul barbs and wastrel's worry and bleh. Not effective. At all. Thanks for that input. All points taken, I still finding myself struggling to find a good offensive build. *sigh*

Zrave · Jul 21, 2005, 10:24 AM // 10:24

Well you asked nicely, so I'll post my N/Me I play in arena for amusement purposes ^^

Blood 16
Soul Reaping 9+1
Inspiration 9+1
Curses 3+1

Rend Enchantments
Awaken the Blood
Life Siphon
Vampiric Gaze
Shadow Strike
Dark Pact
Energy Drain
Channeling

With a +1 to blood 20% chance focus, you sometimes get 29 second 4 pip life siphons, which are rather fun. Use dark pacts between your shadow strikes and gazes, so you sacrifice and then get health back.

You deal like 70% of an air elementalists damage, with no real comparative advantage if they are also running attunements, but killing people with necros gives style points. Well at least you don't lose too much efficiency if rended.

You can also try a curses version with faintheartedness and whatnot, that should be fun as well.

FiveDisgruntledMonkeys · Jul 22, 2005, 07:44 AM // 07:44

Well, since this is *the* PVP Necro/Mesmer thread, I thought I'd throw my current build into the mix.
Tarodeus Tilrin, an Arcanist with an Unhealthy Interest in the Necrotic Arts
Atts:
Inspiration Magic: 9
Blood Magic: 13 (11+1+1)
Soul Reaping: 5 (4+1)
Curses: 12 (10+1+1)
Skills:
Arcane Echo
Life Siphon
Inspired Hex
Enfeeble
Parasitic Bond
Suffering
Shadow of Fear
Life Transfer [E]
Vitals:
460 Health
42 Energy
----
A far from perfect build, I'm sure. I threw this together shortly after completing the PvE aspect of the game, which good ol' TT ripped through with very little difficulty. In PvE, he'd use Arcane Echo to double up Life Transfer. He'd then stack Life Siphon and Life Transfer on two different foes. This allowed him to do crazy things, like stand in magma pools without loosing health and stand toe-to-toe with Jade Armors and Titans, so I figured I'd keep it for PvP. I want to switch out Life Transfer for a more practical elite (7 Degen is good, but not "elite" good) further along the line.
Anyway, I took my hodgepodge build into the 4v4 random-team arena of Kryta to goof off. I found myself with a less-than-desirable group (no monks, no nukers), and prepared myself for slaughter. But, to my pleasant surprise, we began to kick a large amount of butt. We won three victories, two of them flawless, before I had to go.
Of course, 4v4 is hardly where the big-boys play. But my success there was encouraging. I ran into no energy problems what-so-ever, but then again, I never had much of a problem with that anyway.
My main concern with this build is that it relies too much on health degen, which I've heard is weak for PvP. Originally, TT was going to be an "anti-warrior", but that fell through when I found some keynote skills I planned to use had hefty casting times and recharge times.
Anyone want to suggest how I can switch my skills around to create a good "anti-warrior" hexer while still keeping my attributes relatively intact?

balinor limad · Jul 23, 2005, 04:34 PM // 16:34

im no necro but i would use attributes like blood magic insparation and illusion
illusion for conjure phantsm
blood for life draining spells
insparation forenergy stealing skills

thats what i would do
and an innturuption N/Me would b mch better i think and more fun
for an anti warrior tank i definitly have sothing images and energy stealing skills
the elete can take 20 energy so use them both al the warrior can do is swing a sword and im a PvE warrior also and thiese r very important 2 survival